AKBER CHAOUDHRY

  Rafi,

Thanks for your comments.  I have been traveling and busy.  Here is the reply to your questions:
 

Its not possible for me to agree or disagree with you on this unless   I see the math. What is the point in time when life was originated and   how much time it requires to create the complexity of design of, lets   say, human beings?

Here is one link that puts together the story. I have investigated the sources -- it appears to be logical and the sources appear to be credible:
 

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist12.htm

 

My first question is, aren't you taking a gradualist position when you talk about not having enough time for speciation?

My point was: speciation by natural selection does not work due to a lack of time and a lack of explained mechanisms.  The "stability" of species over long periods and then the "burst" of new species in relatively short periods does not leave enough time for a gradualist approach.  Another big gap is the absence of fossil records of "intermediate forms".  Geographical isolation and climatic changes are definitely in play, but what causes the sexual isolation of a species when both these factors are not present is a much bigger question.

 

My second question is, since I do consider myself a gradualist, what are the basis of your assertions that they have been discredited?


This paper summarizes the problems with speciation: http://pondside.uchicago.edu/ceb/Coyne&Orr_1998.pdf
My question then is: How can we trust Darwin's "Origin of Species" if the processes of speciation are still obscure?

Gould's answer to your question may make sense -- but again the verbiage of speciation has never been substantiated by models that explain the various ways in which speciation may occur.

 

I do not know your position on these parts of Qur'an but I have seen people, e.g. GA Parvez,  interpreting  them in a way that they become agreeable with the laws of nature.


Good point.  I may have gone very close to that myself!  It is the logical foundation of Islam that almost stipulates that most of its intellectual followers find rationality behind every nook and cranny, and be disillusioned if they do not.  In other words, believing in a "son of God bridging human and divine" (Benedict XVI)  leaves much more room for "blind faith" -- while on the other hand, ". . . those that ponder over the creation of the Heavens and the Earth . . . " (Aal-Imran)  encourages rational thought.

I will just talk with reference to the Qur'an -- trying to stretch and twist and rationalize every word based on "current" scientific knowledge is a redundant although not useless exercise -- but it should never form the basis of faith or apostacy (in case of disillusionment).  Why? Because following in the same way, one would be disillusioned with the human race that kills itself, with science that contradicts itself. 

I take a broader approach.  The Qur'an is not a scientific manual -- but its assertions stand the test of time.  First the points you raised:  the splitting of the moon is not mentioned in the Qur'an as a miracle.  Second: the philosophy of raising the dead is explained in 2:258-260.  The "parting of the sea" by Moses is most likely one of the estuaries of the Nile in the Nile Delta as that lies directly between the Pharaoh's Egypt and the land of Canaan and begs the question -- how else did the Israelites cross over into Canaan?  Maybe the version in the Ten Commandments is not that accurate but the miracle was that he passed and Pharaoh's troops perished.  Had they not perished, they would have surely killed them - so they must have perished!  Anyways, back to more serious stuff --

Concepts like the relativity of time, the inability of humans to even create a fly from scratch (Drosophilia, anyone?), the ability to go away from the earth, the possibility of life on other planets, the creation of life depends on water, the instinctive complexity of honey bees (most extensive research) and the paths they follow, the "unfolding" of the universe and its "folding back", the intitial creation and subsequent creation of life. Such concepts were necessary to explain the metaphysical and spirituality of Islam -- and not serve as a scientific manual.  The miracle is that they still hold -- while the similes and examples of prior religions (Mahabharatha, Old Testament) cease to hold although they serve essentially the same purpose.

In summation, the Qur'an renders the physical world and its processes as parameters and evidence of its spiritual teaching, not as some scientific paper whose minutest misunderstanding automatically results in a total loss of faith in the spiritual and social system that the Qur'an espouses.

 

Theists believe its God who defined the process,  atheists believe its NOT God. I am neither. I just don't know. I don't have enough evidence to join one club or the other.


Safe choice!  The entity who is privy to all the variables behind the apparently random processes may be God.  And the sheer amount of information that needs to be processed and in the time that it needs to predict the outcome may be learnt by humans to some degree.  A doctor says "do not smoke" for it can cause cancer.  At a specific point in time, in a specific cell in the lungs a specific molecule errs - causing cancer.  The doctor is sharing a macro view of the micro -- for he is "Allah's khalifa on Earth" (according to the Qur'an) and "in the image of God" (Bible).  This also leads to the atheist's fallacy that whatever is unknown at a certain point in time is defined as "God", although the reverse is true -- that man is such an idiot representative that it takes him thousands of years to understand even the simplest of processes that has been around forever.  Understanding something does not negate the wonder of the Creator -- understanding the Big Bang cannot enable us to re-create it!

So, going in a positive loop - the more science the theist knows, the more his awe of God -- in the exact spirit of 3:190-191 -- and in this way when one day scientists come up with a plausible explanation for speciation, it will fill me with awe for the Creator, if I am still around.  But if you try to convince me that humans started in the Rift Valley because they needed to stand upright to access trees, and then their brains slowly became larger -- and do not tell me how -- give me a break, that is not science.  And if someone scoffs at my skepticism, then who is the skeptic and who is the mullah?  The difference between the Homo genus (including extinct sub-species) and the closest ape is so huge that whenever a plausible theory for speciation is found, this particular speciation will be considered so unusual as to be "an act of God" (in insurance policy language)!  What Qur'anic teaching will that contradict?  That man was created from clay?  Just like the Jinn were created from fire? Read the whole passage and you will get the thrust of what I am trying to say -- the Shaitan saying - why should I prostrate before someone created from clay?  We are talking about spirituality here -- not science.

 

A God who is outside the realm of natural laws can easily prove His existence but what if He has decided not to violate his own pre-ordained laws? Considering, somehow, that revelation of Qur'an itself is not a violation of His pre-ordained law, it can be assumed that He has established a line of communication with human race (whatever maybe the eventual purpose of this entire exercise), so it shouldn't be hard for Him to provide the evidence.


Very good questions.  I'll just tell you what I think -- do you ever think of The Force, The First Cause, Mother Nature, Chance, the total body of knowledge, the Singular, the Singularity.  They may be concepts, idols or attributes of the One God -- take your pick!  Now, that does not necessarily equate the three :)  Why?

My rather controversial view is that modern science would have been very hard to initiate without the rationality behind the concept of the One Unseen God -- for it is the concept of the One Unseen God that kicks us off our idolatrous asses and asks us to go out there and find out how He manages to create all the physical processes that we see.  So, it is no wonder that modern science through hypothesis and algorithm and experiment and theory is a product of the Islamic civilization -- which Europe could only emulate in the Renaissance when it shod itself clear of its superstitious past.  I am not writing this to prove some superiority of the Islamic civilization (later on that)  but rather that it was the Islamic concept of God that sent those great rational minds out in search of the truths -- as all truths are part of The Truth.

Two more points in this rather long post:
1. Qur'an levels - or butoon - are part of the miracle of the Qur'an.  A philosopher finds gems in there that solves problems while a person who can barely read with an IQ of 75 can still find enough things in there to keep him/her on the right track.  It does not behoove a Ph.D. to criticize a Grade 5 book's version of Einstein's relativity -- and the Grade 5 student will never be able to open up the secrets that the Ph.D. knows.  So it is for the intelligentsia to not engage in frivolous textual debate when talking at the philosophical level.
2. World future - in the history of civilizations - the yoyos occur as a result of cultures unyielding to the obvious.  Europeans, by their superior organizational abilities and exploitation of natural resources taken science and its exploitation to an unprecedented level after picking up from where the Muslims left off.  What do you foresee in a world where organizational superiority is copied the world over, and resources start to diminish?  That is probably off-topic here but is the question for the next 150 years.
 


 

 
 

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